After downplaying the threat of coronavirus for days, President Donald Trump addressed the nation Wednesday from the Oval Office, calling COVID-19 a “foreign virus” and announcing an unprecedented travel ban from most of Europe to the U.S. He also said he will expand sick leave. This comes as Senate Republicans blocked paid sick leave legislation. Robert Pollin, distinguished university professor of economics and co-director of the Political Economy Research Institute at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, says the lack of universal healthcare in the U.S. is exacerbating the coronavirus crisis due to “the absurdity that people cannot feel confident that they are going to get medical treatment” when they need it most. In 2018, Pollin co-authored a paper titled “Economic Analysis of Medicare for All.” His forthcoming book, co-authored with Noam Chomsky, is “The Climate Crisis and the Global Green New Deal: The Political Economy of Saving the Planet.”
Transcript
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: After downplaying the threat of coronavirus for days, President Donald Trump struck a different tone Wednesday night in an Oval Office address. As the number of confirmed cases in the United States topped 1,300 and the death toll reached 38, Trump referred to the COVID-19 pathogen as a “foreign virus” that, quote, “started in China,” and ordered a travel ban that’s unprecedented in U.S. history. Trump’s address inspired panic in financial markets after he said he was imposing restrictions on a, quote, “tremendous amount of trade and cargo” from Europe. Dow futures dropped 1,100 points immediately after the comments, building on historic losses in recent days that ended an 11-year bull market.
AMY GOODMAN: Despite the fact that his Oval Office address was scripted, the Trump administration quickly had to issue a number of corrections. Among them, Trump tweeted the restriction, quote, “stops people not goods.” Trump also said during his speech U.S. insurance companies have agreed to waive all copayments for coronavirus treatments. Then a spokesperson for America’s Health Insurance Plans quickly issued a statement saying the waived copays would only apply to coronavirus tests, not treatment. And Trump also later clarified U.S. citizens in Europe would be allowed to return home, though they will have to undergo screenings. Trump also proposed eliminating payroll tax through the end of the year, with a timeline that would extend the tax cut through his reelection campaign.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I’m calling on Congress to provide Americans with immediate payroll tax relief. Hopefully, they will consider this very strongly. We are at a critical time in the fight against the virus. … I will never hesitate to take any necessary steps to protect the lives, health and safety of the American people. I will always put the well-being of America first.
AMY GOODMAN: For more, we’re joined by Robert Pollin, distinguished university professor of economics, co-director of the Political Economy Research Institute at the University of Massachusetts Amherst. The campus just announced it’s closing due to coronavirus. Pollin’s forthcoming book, he co-authored with Noam Chomsky, is titled The Climate Crisis and the Global Green New Deal: The Political Economy of Saving the Planet. In 2018, he co-authored a paper titled “Economic Analysis of Medicare for All.”
Robert Pollin, welcome to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you with us. And we thank the team that is in the studio now, with your university closing. If you can talk about what Medicare for All would mean in the time of the coronavirus, and what President Trump is proposing around this payroll tax cut?
ROBERT POLLIN: Sure. Well, you kind of characterized everything very well with this news from the insurance companies, wherein Trump announced, just last night, that the insurance companies agreed to waive all copayments. Well, that turns out to not even be true. I mean, that is a minimal gesture, but it turns out to have not even been true, because the insurance companies said they would only waive copayments for testing and not treatment.
So, what we have is the exacerbation of a crisis due to the fact, the absurdity, as Bernie Sanders put it, the absurdity that people cannot feel confident that they are going to get medical treatment, exactly when everyone needs to feel like they can get the medical treatment that they need, that they can get testing, that they can get treatment, that they don’t have to worry about it, that they’re not going to go bankrupt, that their families are not going to lose their homes, that we can proceed in a way to solve the crisis as opposed to worsening it. Under an economy that operates with Medicare for All, that would be the case. That’s not what we have now.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, do you expect that — Professor Pollin, do you expect that to change at all as more and more people are tested and, likely, more people are found to be infected?
ROBERT POLLIN: Well, the proposal that Trump has come up with is, you know, absurdly inadequate. The House Republicans are blocking the measure, as you reported at the top of the show — are blocking a measure to extend paid sick leave for everybody.
Now, here’s the situation with respect to the coronavirus and the economy. Unlike most recessions, as we move into a recession, in this recession the impact is being felt immediately and is being felt primarily, first of all —
AMY GOODMAN: Keep going, Professor Pollin.
ROBERT POLLIN: The impact is being felt — OK, the impact is being felt with service sector jobs, that are generally lower-paying jobs, jobs in the hospitality industry, jobs in transportation, so people that are working for airlines, people that are working moving baggage, people that are working in restaurants. A very high proportion of those people are low-paid. They don’t have healthcare, and they don’t get paid sick leave.
So, the first immediate step is to get money in these people’s pockets, because they’re facing layoffs and furloughs. President Bush, in 2008, sent out checks for everybody, $600 per person, $300 for children. Something equivalent to that, at a higher level, maybe $2,000, is what we need right now. A payroll tax is going to dribble out slowly. It will also benefit people at higher income levels disproportionate to people at lower income levels, so it’s not going to help the people that need it most.
And what the people need most is reassurance that they’re not going to lose their livelihoods, and that if they need medical treatment, they’re going to get medical treatment. So, Trump has not proposed that. Under a Medicare for All economy, of course, that would be a matter of course.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to the exit polls, in every state that voted in the Democratic primary in Super Tuesday 2, showing strong support for Medicare for All, including in conservative Mississippi, where it has the backing of nearly two-thirds of Democratic voters. Speaking on MSNBC Monday, Joe Biden indicated, if elected president, he would veto Medicare for All legislation should Congress send it to his desk. This is what he said.
JOE BIDEN: I would veto anything that delays providing the security and the certainty of healthcare being available now.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Joe Biden. Robert Pollin, your response?
ROBERT POLLIN: Look, Biden has been obfuscating the truth about Medicare for All throughout the campaign. He’s not the only one, but he’s the only one left running. The simple fact is, Medicare for All is capable of delivering high-quality good healthcare to every single person, every resident in the country, at lower cost. Financing this is simple. Financing this is simple because it is going to save money. We know it’s going to save money because every other advanced economy is delivering healthcare for all, as Bernie Sanders said in his speech, at roughly half of what we now pay.
So, when Biden says we don’t know — we can’t possibly afford this, that it is going to bankrupt the country, that flies against all the evidence we have from all the other advanced economies and all the research that has been conducted by many people, myself included, but many other studies. There was a study of all the studies that came out from the University of California about two months ago, which said — not just mine — but showed roughly 20 studies, of which 18 of them all showed that under Medicare for All, we save money. So, Biden, first of all, has at least got to acknowledge that truth, and then recognize — if he says, “I’m going to veto this,” then what we can say is, “Therefore, you’re going to veto a plan in which everybody is able to get good, quality care at lower cost. And how do you defend that position?”
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Professor Pollin, of course, that begs the question, if it is the case that Medicare for All — you wrote an economic analysis of Medicare for All — is going to be cheaper than the present system, then why is there opposition to it that’s sustained the present situation for as long as it has, you know, and, as you point out, which is very different from other advanced economies?
ROBERT POLLIN: Well, the real answer is pretty simple. There’s two big, big, big ways that we save money in Medicare for All relative to our existing system. One is that we eliminate the private health insurance industry. And, two, we dramatically lower pharmaceutical costs, the price of prescription drugs. That means gigantic profits are going to be taken away from health insurance and the pharmaceutical industry. I mean gigantic profits. So, if we add it all up, we’re approaching a trillion dollars here. And they are going to fight with everything they have to keep those profits, and they have virtually the entire political class in their pockets, including Joe Biden.
As the number of coronavirus cases in the United States passes 1,300 cases with 38 deaths, more than 30 million workers lack access to paid sick leave. President Trump addressed the nation Wednesday night, saying he will expand sick leave as part of emergency response to the virus. But the same day, Republican senators blocked an attempt by Senate Democrats to quickly pass legislation requiring employers to grant paid sick leave. Meanwhile, Democrats in the House of Representatives will debate a package of bills Thursday to give workers 14 days of paid sick leave and up to three months of paid family and medical leave. Labor Department data says that one in four workers have no access to paid sick leave, including two-thirds of lowest earners. The U.S. is one of the only wealthy countries that does not require employers to offer its workers paid sick leave. We speak with Elise Gould, senior economist at the Economic Policy Institute; Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union; and economist Robert Pollin, co-director of the Political Economy Research Institute at the University of Massachusetts Amherst.
Transcript
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: As the number of coronavirus cases in the United States passes 1,300 cases with 38 deaths, more than 30 million workers lack access to paid sick leave. President Trump addressed the nation Wednesday night, saying he will expand sick leave as part of the emergency response to the virus.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: If you are sick or not feeling well, stay home. To ensure that working Americans impacted by the virus can stay home without fear of financial hardship, I will soon be taking emergency action, which is unprecedented, to provide financial relief. This will be targeted for workers who are ill, quarantined or caring for others due to coronavirus. I will be asking Congress to take legislative action to extend this relief.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: That was President Trump speaking last night. But the same day, Republican Senator Lamar Alexander of Tennessee blocked an attempt by Senate Democrats to quickly pass legislation requiring employers to grant paid sick leave.
SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER: The idea of paid sick leave is a good idea, but if Washington, D.C., thinks it’s a good idea, Washington, D.C., should pay for it. When I was governor of Tennessee, nothing used to make me more unhappy than some well-meaning individual in the United States Senate or House coming up with a big idea, passing it, taking credit for it and sending me the bill. And so, employees are struggling. So are employers struggling.
AMY GOODMAN: This comes as Democrats in the House of Representatives prepare to debate a package of bills today to give workers 14 days paid sick leave and up to three months of paid family and medical leave. The bill also includes funding for low-income mothers and pregnant people who may be laid off due to coronavirus, $400 billion for local food banks and free coronavirus testing for all those who need it, including those without insurance. Labor Department data says one in four workers have no access to paid sick leave, including two-thirds of the lowest-income earners. The U.S. is one of the only wealthy countries in the world that doesn’t require employers to offer its workers paid sick leave.
For more, we’re joined by two new guests. In Washington, D.C., Elise Gould, senior economist at the Economic Policy Institute. Her most recent article is titled “Amid COVID-19 Outbreak, the Workers Who Need Paid Sick Days the Most Have the Least.” Here in New York, Donna Lieberman is with us, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union. Still with us, Robert Pollin, distinguished university professor of economics, co-director of the Political Economy Research Institute at the University of Massachusetts Amherst.
Elise Gould, let’s first go to you. Lay out for us what is being debated right now, what needs to happen in this country, why paid sick leave is not only for people who individually have it or could get it, but for the whole community.
ELISE GOULD: It’s absolutely of utmost importance. The CDC recommends that people stay home. They stay home if they might be infected. They stay home if they’re quarantined. They stay home to stay out of harm’s way. And unfortunately, as you’ve said already, about a quarter of U.S. workers don’t have paid sick days, don’t have the ability to stay home when they’re sick or they need to stay home, if they’re quarantined, or they need to take care of another family member. So that is an important gap we need to absolutely fill with policy. And luckily, policymakers can do something about it.
What makes this even worse is that low-wage workers are far less likely to have paid days, and they’re far less likely to be able to work from home. And when you think about the service sector, the sector that’s going to get particularly hit by this, not only because they’re out in the public, but also because they’re going to have fewer customers, you’re going to see some layoffs. You’re going to see people’s hours cut. So it’s really important that we have those protections for those workers in particular.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Donna Lieberman, you’re the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union. Could you explain who at the moment does have sick leave, paid sick leave, and who doesn’t?
DONNA LIEBERMAN: Well, it’s really a mix. The people who in New York lack paid sick leave are overwhelmingly low-paid workers and workers in the gig economy. And that includes domestic workers. It includes restaurant workers and —
AMY GOODMAN: Home healthcare workers?
DONNA LIEBERMAN: Home healthcare workers and people who aren’t in unions. And so — and here in New York, we have been campaigning for quite a while now to get mandatory paid sick leave. And there are two issues. One is being able to stay out of work and get your job back, and the other is getting paid. And there’s legislation pending in New York to mandate that. And that’s for the long term.
You know, we also have to deal with the immediate problem that we’re presented with, which is the coronavirus. And it’s imperative that the state pass legislation that would guarantee that people will not lose their jobs or their income if they adhere to the public health best practices, which is to stay in quarantine under a whole range of circumstances and work from home.
AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile, some in the corporate sector are changing their policies in response to the pandemic, including Walmart, which launched an emergency leave policy for its 1.4 million hourly U.S. workers, after a Kentucky employee tested positive. The nation’s largest private employer said Tuesday workers who are diagnosed or forced to quarantine will receive two weeks’ pay, with additional compensation provided for up to 26 weeks for both full-time and part-time hourly workers. Darden Restaurants, the parent company of Olive Garden, said it will now offer its hourly workers 40 hours of paid sick leave annually. Ride-hailing app Uber said it would provide drivers diagnosed with coronavirus with 14 days paid sick leave, although it didn’t specify what that would amount to. Lyft also said it would compensate sick drivers, but didn’t specify how. Robert Pollin, if you can address all of these? And also, if they test positive for the coronavirus, it is extremely difficult for people in this country to even get a test.
ROBERT POLLIN: Right. So, this, again, really portrays the failure of our healthcare system to deal with anything, anything like this at all. Now, what we therefore need to focus on is everybody recognizing that they can have the paid sick leave that they need, such that they are not going to face any kind of financial crisis on top of any kind of healthcare crisis. And so, as Elise said, what we know is that people, let’s say, in the lowest 10% in terms of their pay scale, 90% of them have no paid sick leave. So this has to be recognized across the board, that everyone is going to get paid sick leave.
Now, Lamar Alexander said, “Oh, this is all well and good, but we don’t know how to pay for it.” It’s actually very easy to pay for it. We just extend Medicaid benefits to everybody that needs this. We expand Medicare to cover everything to do with the coronavirus. And the federal government, yes, will pay for it. I’m not opposed per se to employers getting a payroll tax cut, if that payroll tax cut is then used to help cover the cost of covering paid sick leave. At the same time, the most important thing for people is to be able to get money in their pockets for that assurance and to recognize they have paid sick leave and full coverage for any kind of care that they need with the coronavirus.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Professor Pollin, as you also mentioned, all of this is taking place in the context of a broader economic crisis in the United States, and, of course, the two are playing off one another. It’s the the oil crisis, as well as the coronavirus, which has created this situation. The U.S. is on the cusp of an economic recession. Could you talk about what the impact of that will be on the possible government responses to the coronavirus as we see more infections?
ROBERT POLLIN: Well, you know, pumping money into the economy is basically what we need right now. Even if it wasn’t a coronavirus crisis, it is a significant recession that we’re facing. It would have happened anyway. The financial markets have been overvalued for years. They were vulnerable to any kind of shock, and so we’re experiencing that now. So, one of the main things that happens that exacerbates a financial crisis is that state and local governments run out of money. They run out of money because people don’t have as much. They’re not spending on sales taxes. And so, that would happen anyway.
Now, that’s going to get much worse than it would otherwise, precisely because the state governments are going to pay for Medicare expenses. So the federal government has to move money from the federal government, contrary to Lamar Alexander. They have to move money into covering Medicaid for the states, and so that the states don’t deepen the crisis with the fact that they don’t have money. On top of that, then spending by the federal government. As I said, in 2008, the Bush administration sent out checks, just sent out checks. If you’re just going to wait for payroll tax cuts, these are going to dribble out slowly over time.
What we need is a positive shock to the economy to counteract the negative shock of the coronavirus. The positive shock is at least people will know that they’re getting these checks, that they will be disproportionately beneficial for low-income people who depend on service sector jobs, as Elise said — restaurant workers, hotel workers, gig economy workers. They need to feel that they are going to be financially stable and that they will not go bankrupt due to having to get a coronavirus test —
AMY GOODMAN: Elise —
ROBERT POLLIN: — or, if they’re tested positive, getting treatment.
AMY GOODMAN: Let me ask Elise Gould. We only have a minute, but what would a comprehensive worker protection plan look like right now? What do you see — you’re in Washington — is being debated in the House? What happens, for example, with undocumented immigrants? When you talk about the gig economy, how are people going to be protected at this moment?
ELISE GOULD: That’s a great question. And I think Robert is absolutely right. We need to take all the measures to make sure that people have the paid sick days, but that’s not enough. We need to make sure people have money in their pockets. This recession is going to affect service sector workers, lower-paid workers. We need to get money in their pockets now, and we need to make sure that they can stay home, they have all the economic incentives to stay home, which means that they get paid to stay home. If that means expanding the unemployment insurance program, I think that’s great. I agree that payroll tax is sort of too little, too late. We need to make sure that we get money in the pockets of people right now, and then the money in the states, I think, absolutely, covering those Medicaid matches for the increased demand and making sure states have the money to take care of the people.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, in New York state, Donna Lieberman, you’re part of this coalition for — how does it divide, by the state and the federal government? And when Governor Cuomo says that we want to make sure that insurance companies pay full amount, for example, testing, what if you don’t have insurance?
DONNA LIEBERMAN: New York has a very liberal Medicaid program. But you’ve nailed it. You know, paying for testing, if and when they actually become available — and they’re not available thanks to the bumbling of the federal government — is essential. And testing is meaningful in terms of public health, but it is not meaningful without treatment for people who are sick. So I think that New York’s Medicaid program is pretty good, and I think the governor has said that testing will be free, but it has to be available, broadly available, and that requires some push on the federal government.
_________
Robert Pollin
distinguished university professor of economics and co-director of the Political Economy Research Institute at the University of Massachusetts Amherst.
Elise Gould
senior economist at the Economic Policy Institute. Her most recent article is titled “Amid COVID-19 Outbreak, the Workers Who Need Paid Sick Days the Most Have the Least.”
Donna Lieberman
executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union.
— source democracynow.org, democracynow.org | Mar 12, 2020