One year ago today, Egyptian forces opened fire on a sit-in at Rabaa al-Adawiya Square in Cairo. Tens of thousands of people had camped in the square to protest the ouster of democratically elected President Mohamed Morsi. Over the course of a single day, in what became known as the Rabaa massacre, Egyptian forces killed at least 817 people. Now, Human Rights Watch has unveiled a new report that concludes Egypt’s actions likely constituted a crime against humanity, one of the worst violations of international law. The report puts the massacre on par with China’s infamous massacre of unarmed protesters at Tiananmen Square. We are joined by Human Rights Watch Executive Director Kenneth Roth, who, along with Middle East Director Sarah Leah Whitson, attempted to enter Egypt and present the group’s findings earlier this week, but was detained and turned away.
Kenneth Roth talking:
this was one of the world’s largest killings of demonstrators in a single day in recent history. the numbers typically attributed to the Tiananmen massacre or the Andijan massacre in Uzbekistan were, say, 400 to 800. Here, Human Rights Watch has the names of 817 victims in Rabaa Square, and we say that the likely total count number is above a thousand. So this was a crime against humanity, as Amy said. And it is a crime that simply should not be forgotten. I mean, the government is doing everything it can to sweep it under the rug. They literally built a monument in Rabaa Square to honor the police and the military. They gave bonuses to people who participated in the shooting. They have not cooperated with any of the international or domestic investigative attempts. And, of course, they blocked me at the airport when I tried to go into Cairo to present the report. So, the government is just stonewalling. It’s important that we press forward and that if Egypt itself won’t investigate a crime of this magnitude, we’ve called on the international community, particularly the U.N. Human Rights Council, to launch a commission of inquiry to begin the formal evidence collection needed for later prosecution.
one is currently President Sisi, who a year ago was the defense minister and the deputy prime minister for security affairs. He was overall in charge. The person who was designated to run the operation was the still current interior minister, Mohamed Ibrahim. And what’s interesting is, Minister Ibrahim, going into the massacre, anticipated thousands of dead. As your correspondent just noted, there had been a couple of incidents just in the prior month, where, you know, 90 protesters were killed here, 60 there, so they knew that violence was going to be a real risk. They nonetheless—despite what happened, Ibrahim said, the day after, everything had gone exactly according to plan. So they knew there was a potential for violence. They actually covered up the—knowing that it would be possible to conduct a forensic investigation of the square, they distributed ammunition somewhat randomly so it would be difficult to trace it. They doctored the ammunition release logs. So, they went in with a guilty conscience, covering up, and they have just stood by and blatantly obstructed any investigative effort since then.
Dr. Abdul Mawgoud Dardery talking:
it is the world’s largest killings of peaceful demonstrators in a single day. We’re talking about about 800, and we have estimated about 1,600, and the number can be more than that. So, what we see in Egypt now is a crime against humanity, almost a full year.
And I do apologize for Kenneth Roth for not being allowed to enter my home country. I, myself, cannot go back to Egypt, so it’s not just you. There are many Egyptians who cannot go back to Egypt. There are many Egyptians who were killed in the past year, thousands of Egyptians. We’re talking about thousands—not just numbers. Those people are human beings. They have families. They have children. They have life to live. Many of them are members of Parliament. Many of them are university professors, medical doctors. They’re all in jail now.
And that is the tragedy that Egypt is going through now. What we have is a criminal system, is a coup regime that is trying to suffocate democracy and freedom, all types of freedom. You demonstrate, most likely you either get killed or you end up in prison. If you move from one place to another, most likely they’re going to arrest you. If you speak your mind or even if you use a sign, a simple sign that commemorates the massacre that is called Rabaa, a sign—children who used this sign ended up in jail.
With four fingers. That is the symbol of the Rabaa. That is—Rabaa means “four.” That’s the name of a woman where the square—the massacre took place. And this woman is known to be a highly spiritual woman who stood against oppression, who was very spiritual and decided not to accept oppression by any means. So, Rabaa is very important. Rabaa represents freedom, resistance, peaceful resistance.
This day commemorates two things. Number one, that hundreds of people got killed in that day, for nothing but their standing up for democracy and the will of the people to be respected. Number two, we’re determined. Egyptians are determined, both inside the country and outside the country, not to accept the status quo, not to accept the state of fear, the police state coming back. We will never accept this. We will continue. Today, people are killed, and people are imprisoned. We will continue this march towards freedom, peacefully, until democracy is back, until freedom is back, until social justice and human dignity are back to Egypt.
I know many. Many of them are close friends. I know, in my hometown, at least three: Ustaz Amar [phon.], Ustaz Jalali [phon.]—and those two, the first one was working as a supervisor in ancient antiquities. He was a great man. He was so humble. He was so serving the people. If you saw the funeral, thousands of people went behind him, because that person gave a lot to the community in [inaudible]. But there is a special friend, who was my office manager when I was running for office in the Parliament. His name is Ahmad [phon.]. Ahmad was a young man who loved Egypt and loved democracy. He wanted to live in a democratic. He did not have a job, so he was working in my office assisting me and assisting the needy Egyptians to provide them services. He lost his life in that day, left his wife and one kid. He was just married a year ago.
for decades, as Egyptians, we wanted to live in a free society. We wanted to enjoy the freedom that all other people enjoy in the world. We wanted to live—that’s why we went to the streets during Mubarak’s regime. And we went to the streets for four principles: economic progress, freedom, social justice and human dignity. We were able to get this. And then we wanted to follow a democratic alternative. We were moving surely, but slowly, towards a democratic alternative in Egypt.
Unfortunately, the deep state, the state of Mubarak, in addition to the corrupt officers of the military, corrupt officers of the police, corrupt judiciary and corrupt state officials, decided to end up the democratic process. So they made the coup. They kidnapped the president, killed thousands of people, imprisoned thousands. And now they’re suffocating all types of freedom.
So, when the coup took place, it was shocking. It was really shocking. I was in an interview with CNN, and they told me, “What are you going to do now?” I said, “We will do what Americans did: Give me liberty, or give me death. I will never accept to live under a police state again. I cannot afford living in a state of oppression—not only me, millions of Egyptians.” Another unique characteristic of the Egyptian society, for the past 400 days, Egyptians have been going to the streets, day in and day out, and they know they’ll either get killed or get imprisoned, but they’re determined to remain peaceful, and they will continue their march until democracy is back in Egypt.
Kenneth Roth talking:
It’s important to talk about the Egyptian government’s defense, because it is just so flimsy. Yes, there was violence in the square. We describe that in detail in the report. On the periphery of the square, there were young men throwing Molotov cocktails, and the police themselves report having found 15—one-five—firearms among the tens of thousands of people in the square.
There were eight police officers killed at Rabaa Square that day, compared to 817 or more demonstrators killed. Now, what we found is that rather than the police, you know, focused and targeting on people who posed a threat to them, they were basically firing indiscriminately at protesters. There were snipers on the roofs who were simply picking people off. At one point, they were shooting anybody who entered Rabaa Hospital, in what became known as “Sniper’s Alley.” Other times, police on the ground were just firing indiscriminately into the crowd. They were standing on top of armored personnel carriers, clearly not worried about their own welfare, because there wasn’t a serious threat. They were just getting better aim at the crowd. So, the argument that this was self-defense is just wrong. And in fact, although your correspondent talked about this being a war, it’s not a war. This was just one-sided repression. And the standard is, you can use lethal force only if there’s an imminent lethal threat. That was flouted here.
Secretary of State John Kerry periodically visits Cairo, and each time he’s there, he talks about the progress being made toward democracy. Now, I don’t know what glasses he’s wearing, but no one else sees that progress. And in essence, you know, what the State Department spokeswoman was saying just there is that because Egypt is an important security ally in fighting terrorism and helping Israel fight Hamas, the U.S. government has basically decided to sell the Egyptian people down the Nile. You know, here’s a government that has committed one of the—in fact, the biggest massacre of demonstrators in recent history, and Washington says, “Eh, who cares? They’re an important security partner. Here, have, you know, a few gazillion dollars.”
Dr. Abdul Mawgoud Dardery talking:
I don’t call it “failure.” I call it betrayal, for the American ideals of supporting the rule of law, of supporting democracy. I remember when President Barack Obama visited Cairo and gave that wonderful speech. We did believe his hypocrisy—I mean, his democracy speech in Cairo. It is very unfortunate that the United States administration, the EU also, betrayed their own ideals of supporting democracy, human rights and rule of law. Aid should not be used to kill Egyptians. That is wrong. That is not going to help us building better understanding and better relations. On the long run, we’re losing, everyone. Egyptians are being killed by American aid. Americans are paying money for dictatorship. And that should be the old day’s policy, not the new day’s policy. Today’s is a day of democracy, is a day of freedom. This cannot be accepted. It should not. I believe once Americans know what their government is doing, they’re not going to accept it. And it is very unfortunate that this is happening now.
Freedom and Justice Party is a political party. All political parties make mistakes. Who doesn’t? President Obama’s party makes mistakes. But does this allow us to go and kidnap President Obama, kill thousands of Americans and imprison thousands? Mistakes are to be corrected in a democratic process. In a democracy, you correct mistakes by voting the people out, not by killing them.
What is happening in Egypt, there was a media propaganda, fascist propaganda, that some of the TV are calling—they would like to kill Americans if they find them in the streets of Cairo. That is the fascists, not only against Egypt. Egypt has become now one of the worst, if not the worst, country in relationship to foreign visitors. So that’s why the tourism industry is almost collapsing in my hometown, Luxor, and the rest of the country. So what you see in Egypt is a scenario of lose-lose. Everyone is losing—the military is losing, the Egyptian people are losing, Europe is losing, America losing—unless democracy is back. It is the only alternative for Egypt. And the military has to stay out of power. It has to stay out of the political sphere.
Sharif Abdel Kouddous talking:
The scale of the repression we’re seeing right now is unprecedented, but there were serious violations by the Muslim Brotherhood that cheered police crackdowns on protesters against their rule, as well. But the scale of what we’re seeing now is completely different, and it’s really trying to stamp out the surge of collective empowerment that coursed through the citizenry over the past—for that brief period for a couple of years, and it made the government really afraid of the people instead of people being afraid of the government. And that’s what the main aim is for this repression that is being really flaunted by the government right now.
— source democracynow.org
Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch, which has published a new report, “Egypt: Rab’a Killings Likely Crimes Against Humanity.”
Dr. Abdul Mawgoud Dardery, former member of the Egyptian Parliament, which was dissolved by the military. He left Egypt about two weeks after the coup and is currently a human rights activist living in the United States. Most of his colleagues are now in prison.