Isabel Coixet talking:
John Berger is a — well, he died two years ago. He’s the author of, for me, one of the most important art essays of all times. It’s Ways of Seeing. Ways of Seeing, it’s one of these books, when — you know, when you’re starting to really trying to understand the world, and at the same time, you know, to be aware of how art can explain the world. For me, this is a book I always — there are two books I always recommend, is the Letters of a Young Poet of Rilke and Ways of Seeing. With these two books, I think you cover — at least you expand your way to see the world and to try to understand the world.
John has done — you know, he’s famous for G., an amazing novel, who won the Man Booker Prize. And he was famous because he gave the money of that novel, that prize, to the Black Panthers. At that time in England, everybody was like really — you know, all the press was against him. So he moved to France. And he has brought poetry, art essays. He paints. He paint. He draw. He was — and also, it’s one of the persons I — one of the artists I met with, really teach me what means empathy.
I remember, eight years ago, he went to Gaza, and I met him in Paris after he came back from Gaza. And the way he not just explained the suffering, the situation, the how people go for all those controls. The way he described also the look of fear of a Israeli from the army, or the Israel army soldier, a guy — I remember he wrote a little poem about that, a guy who was probably 18. And the way he really conveyed the situation of the Palestinians, and also the fear, the hatred and the cruelty, it was — for me, that was a lesson, no? Like, you can be — you can be critical, but also you can see what these people are feeling. And these two things, they can give you what’s really going on in a specific place in the world. And that’s something. It’s in all his — you know, all his poems. And every single thing, you know — now when we talk — people talk about cultural appropriation, no? I’ve seen John, you know, in the middle of a herd of sheeps — sheep, with a shepherd. And I’ve seen him helping him to shave the sheeps — the sheep. And that guy, who was able to talk about Spinoza, Leonardo da Vinci, Orson Welles and a poor family in Gaza, can — it had a place there, too, you know, like, that capacity of empathy.
I remember also him in a prison, in the female prison in Barcelona. I remember we invited him to give a poetry reading. And, you know, it’s very difficult to translate his poems in Spanish, but we had a very good translator. The way he was reading his poems to that, you know, these Dominican, Spanish, poor women with babies in that prison, and the way he was able to communicate her his love and his sympathy and his warmth to them was something I will never forget that. That’s how — that’s how an artist must be. This is as my model. I don’t know if — you know.
AMY GOODMAN: And how do you translate that into holding that camera, for example, with Elisa & Marcela, with The Bookshop?
ISABEL COIXET: Yeah, I know maybe it sounds naive, but it’s love, no? For me, it’s — for me, it’s crucial, first of all, working with my crew. I mean, they are like — they are amazing people, and I’ve been working with the same DP for ages. In the case of Elisa & Marcela, the DP is a female DP, Jennifer Cox. Elisa & Marcela is her first film as a DP.
AMY GOODMAN: Director of photography.
ISABEL COIXET: The director of photography, yes. But with the actors, I really know — you know, I have to be with people I like, I respect and I love. And I have to be — I know I have to be — it comes naturally for me. I have to be humble, generous and open. And at the same time, I have to be like a mother and like the General Patton. So, you know, that’s how I can describe it, I think. But it’s important, you know. I think when you hold a camera for so many years, you know when someone will do something. You can guess what — how they’re going to move, what they’re going to do. And you can go with them. And I always try to be their mirror and, at the same time, their witness. And it’s — you know, it’s passionate. I mean, I highly recommend it.
AMY GOODMAN: So, you have made 12 feature films. You’ve also made a number of documentaries, and one of them is Listening to Judge Garzón. Tell us who Judge Garzón is and what happened to him, and what this means about what’s happening in Spain today.
ISABEL COIXET: I think one of the most important things Baltasar Garzón did was in 1998. He was the guy who sent a fax to a judge in London. He knew General Pinochet, the Chilean dictator, was in London to do some kind of operation. And he was working with the victims of the dictatorship, the Chilean dictatorship. And he realized he had the tool to at least make that guy, the General Pinochet, being — you know, he had the way to stop him in London and to put him in prison for — in a trial. And he was the guy who sent a fax to start, you know, at least this — you know, the last years of Pinochet. OK, sadly, he was — you know, he died before being in a trial, but at least the last years he was considered a criminal. And I think that’s a victory for universal justice.
At the same time, in Spain, he was accused of doing, you know, illegal hearings of people who were in prison. And also he was accused to take bribes from a bank to do a cycle of talks in New York. I have to say, I didn’t — you know, I never met him before. But every year — every day I was opening the paper, there was all these horrible things about him. And there was something I —
AMY GOODMAN: And this was a guy — I mean, Judge Garzón was considered a hero in the world —
ISABEL COIXET: Yeah, yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: —for having Pinochet arrested —
ISABEL COIXET: Yeah, exactly.
AMY GOODMAN: — in Spain — in Britain. He was held there for a long time, ultimately went back. And though he died, it exposed the brutality of the Pinochet dictatorship in Chile.
ISABEL COIXET: Yeah. And, you know, this guy was — Baltasar Garzón was a champion of universal justice. But, you know, in Spain, there was all these comments about how he really had a big ego, and he was this guy with a — it was their — you know, they were trying to mock up all the things, all the good things he did, in name of vanity, ego, all this thing, you know? For me, all this was, people have egos, yeah, and vanity. What are we going to do? But what’s the relevance of that?
What he did and what he started, what he stand for, for me, was incredible. And I want him to — I want him to talk and to give his version of what was going on. And, you know, I try — because I worked with his daughter. I never met him, but I know his daughter. And I said, you know, “María, do you think Baltasar will — Baltasar Garzón will talk to me? I really want to make a documentary on him?” And she said, “No, he” — at that time, I think he thought that all these accusations were not going further. But when he sees, you know, this is going, you know, this is serious, and —
AMY GOODMAN: And these accusations are coming at him when he’s not taking on Pinochet, for which he was hailed —
ISABEL COIXET: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: — a dictator from another country —
ISABEL COIXET: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: — but when he was taking on the Franco era in Spain.
ISABEL COIXET: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: And for those outside of Spain, who don’t understand how significant this is and what this divide is, I mean, it goes to the far right throughout Europe and even in the United States.
ISABEL COIXET: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: But what you do with not just Franco, who is dead, who reigned for almost — what? — 40 years, the fascist —
ISABEL COIXET: Forty.
AMY GOODMAN: — in Spain, but all of the people who worked with him and the crimes they committed?
ISABEL COIXET: Yeah, and Baltasar, one of the things he did was, there were a bunch of — quite a lot of people who want the remains of their people who died in the war. They are asking for these remains. They’re asking for the right to look for them. And Baltasar was, “Yeah, yeah.” Baltasar legitimized that wish. And that’s also — you know, it’s something —
AMY GOODMAN: You mean, for all the disappeared in Spain —
ISABEL COIXET: For all the disappeared in the war, in the civil war.
AMY GOODMAN: — who were killed under Franco.
ISABEL COIXET: All these things together, though this is a very — it’s a very tragic combination of things. He was convicted, and he’s not a judge anymore. And one of the things it always struck me when I see him, and he doesn’t have a hint of hatred in him, of bitterness. This is someone, right now — OK, he’s not a judge, but he’s working. He’s doing talks. He has a foundation. He’s doing everything he can right now. He’s really — you know, for instance, one week ago, he wrote a very nice article about Open Arms, the ship who is now trying to rescue people in the Mediterranean.
AMY GOODMAN: Migrants.
ISABEL COIXET: This is someone who said, “OK” — you know, for me, I always think, you know, if someone says, “You’re not a director, a film director, anymore,” I will — I don’t know. I don’t know what I will do. At that moment, he never — you know, of course, he’s trying, through the international tribunals, to get back to be a judge. I think that will happen. Maybe it will happen when he’s 70, and, you know, maybe he will not be a judge anymore. But he is someone who, after all what happened to him, all these horrible campaigns, political and social and very — you know, it’s a little bit like the affair Dreyfus in France 80 years ago. He said, “OK, I’m not a judge, but I’m going to do anything — I’m going to use all my knowledge, all my know-how, to help people.” You know, he was working on the Assange case. He’s working in Colombia. He is really doing what he can. And that’s something. You know, not a bunch of people will react that way. I think he’s a really — a very, very valuable person. And it’s very sad he’s not a judge anymore. We need more like Garzón.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about what’s happening in Catalonia today? You’re very outspoken on this.
ISABEL COIXET: Today. Today.
AMY GOODMAN: Not exactly on this day that we’re doing the interview, but what’s happening now?
ISABEL COIXET: What’s happening now? What’s happening now is, you know, a part of — Catalonia is a part of Spain. I think we are like 7 million people now, or six and a half. I don’t know. That, I don’t know. It’s a part of a country.
AMY GOODMAN: Barcelona has a part of that.
ISABEL COIXET: Well, Barcelona is like the capital of Catalonia. I think what is happening now is we are a very divided, you know, situation. Half of the population thinks we’ll be better if we are independent, and half of the population, like me, think this is a very bad idea. The thing is, the narrative has been kidnapped by the people who thinks independence is a good idea. And that’s what we should be, independent. But this is not a really fair debate, because a bunch of money has been spent in PR, in embassies outside Catalonia, in universities, to extend the idea we are an oppressed population and Madrid is the devil. There is this idea created by the independence. It’s ”España nos roba.” That means “Spain is stealing from us.”
AMY GOODMAN: It’s the richest area of Spain.
ISABEL COIXET: And the Basque Country, too. And the Basque Country and Catalonia — probably now the Basque Country is richer, probably because they renounced to their dream of independence. But listen, there are a bunch of people who think this is something socially progressive. Me, I don’t think independence is something who will make the life of people in Catalonia better. I think it’s exactly the opposite.
AMY GOODMAN: You consider yourself a socialist?
ISABEL COIXET: Yes, always.
AMY GOODMAN: And so, why don’t you think it would make the — it would make the area better to be independent?
ISABEL COIXET: Because, you know, there is this — nationalism is something who comes from nostalgia. We’re seeing now in all around Europe, even here, this idea of “We were great once. And, you know, if we keep doing what we do, that greatness will disappear.” It’s the concept of Brexit. Brexit is the idea of England was pure and great once, and the contamination of immigrants and Europe will — it’s diminishing our entity.
Well, I don’t think — I mean, for me, all these ideas are devoid — are empty of a real social content. What is — when you talk with people who really think — you know, there are people who, like, genuinely think, you know, this is better for the people, this is better for everyone. But there is not a plan. If you ask all these independent countries, “What’s your social model?” they don’t have one. And you can — you know, we have seen it in the last past elections, in the last past three elections. What is the plan? You want independence. That’s what — that’s the only thing you’re proposing. But independence for what?
AMY GOODMAN: You don’t necessarily think it would be progressive, an independent Catalonia?
ISABEL COIXET: I think it will be absolutely the opposite. It will be non-progressive, because it’s not. You remember that sentence of El Gatopardo, that film — well, no, it’s a novel before. At the end of that film, of that novel, there is this thing: Something has to change for everything to continue like it is. I think independence is just a smoke curtain to — you know, for people who really detain the power, these — the 25 families in every country that really are powerful to keep — you know, to keep owning the power.
And, you know, it’s very — but at the same time, I know there are people who are really — you know, they have this pride, proud of being Catalonia. But I have to always remind people, you know, in Catalonia, the schools are in Catalan, all the streets, all the legal documents. If you compare, you know, the Germany, Catalonia has much more power than any other federal states in Germany. And I don’t — I never — talking with people, independent people, I never — I never go past to “We’re Catalan. We’re better.” Nobody’s better than anyone.
AMY GOODMAN: The significance of Ada Colau ultimately winning as mayor again? Although it looked like she was losing, she formed a coalition, and she won. What it means for her to be mayor of Barcelona once again?
ISABEL COIXET: I think it’s a relief. You know, talking about nostalgia. No, I remember, you know, four years ago, when Ada was elected, and Manuela Carmena, the mayor of Madrid, was elected.
AMY GOODMAN: Also a socialist.
ISABEL COIXET: And Anne Hidalgo was, you know — is the mayor of Paris. I had the privilege to meet this these three woman. And I thought, you know, if these three women were really getting the power in the world, the world will be a better place. Manuela Carmena is not — sadly, is not the mayor of Madrid anymore. Ada have another opportunity, another four years, and I really hope — she comes from — you have talked to her. She comes from an activist background. And I thought, I feel, I hope —
AMY GOODMAN: The famous picture of her being dragged by police —
ISABEL COIXET: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: — protesting yet another foreclosure.
ISABEL COIXET: That was one of the first mayors in Europe to put in the town hall a poster saying, you know, “Refugees welcome.” And that gives you an idea who she is and the things she stands for. And the things she stands for are the things I stand for, too. So, you know, being mayor just for four years, it’s not enough. You know, Barcelona is a big city with lots of, lots of promise, social problems, the tourist invasion. And at the same time, I mean, people live from the tourism, and also the tourism is destroying part of the core of the city. And she has four years to do good, and I hope she does.
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Isabel Coixet
Spanish filmmaker.
— source democracynow.org | Sep 08, 2020